1995 Katana 600 No start Please Help

[grzielinski]

i have 140+ psi compression in each cyl, i have re ringed it and lapped the valves, i have fuel and some spark, i have spark to the end of the wire, but i put the caps on and get eratic spark, i have 10 - 11 oams of resisance on all 4 caps, i will start in warmer weather, but when it gets cold, it will not start. please help.

[katana91]

most likely a bad battery

[grzielinski]

Why? How would a bad battery do it? I have a full 11.8 volts at the battery and even have a 10 amp charger on it, and still no start. Thanks for looking and the advice.

[Anonymous]

its the battery a good battery will have 12.8 to 13.2 volts jsut sitting make sure your battery has water in it low water level will cause this also. also use distilled water not tap water unless you have a purification system on it. but most likely its the battery

[The CyberPoet]

Why? How would a bad battery do it? I have a full 11.8 volts at the battery and even have a 10 amp charger on it, and still no start. Thanks for looking and the advice.

Sinful is absolutely correct: New battery. And get that 10 amp charger away from the bike before you blow out something else electrical or explode the battery (max charge rate on the battery is right around 1 amp; 10 amps can easily overheat a motorcycle battery in a short time -- 15 minutes ought to do).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[MarkB]

To add to what cyber wrote, a good battery at full charge should have roughly 12.68v, and a dead battery is 12.45v or lower now 12.45v is concidered %75 charged but is still effectively dead.

Mark

[WildKat]

also too..how old is the battery and how many times have you charged it at 10 amps ? could have damanged it to the point of no return.. especially in cold weather its hard enough to start kats at times as it is.

[FloridaKat]

Why? How would a bad battery do it? I have a full 11.8 volts at the battery and even have a 10 amp charger on it, and still no start. Thanks for looking and the advice.

Sinful is absolutely correct: New battery. And get that 10 amp charger away from the bike before you blow out something else electrical or explode the battery (max charge rate on the battery is right around 1 amp; 10 amps can easily overheat a motorcycle battery in a short time -- 15 minutes ought to do).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

I thought max charge on a bike battery is 2A?

[The CyberPoet]

I thought max charge on a bike battery is 2A?

It varies by the battery type/size/model and whether we are talking a short charge or a continuous charge. For your particular bike (all 98+ Kats - 600 & 750), the max continuous charge rate is 0.8 amps, aka 800 milliamps. This is the temp that will not overheat the battery as long as the charging shuts down when the battery is truly full, and the rate at which your particular battery type (AGM battery) is designed to reabsorb the gases produced by the charging process.

Any charge rate higher than that means you are adding more heat to the battery than it will dissipate, and you have to take that into consideration. Plus you're adding gas into the case faster than it's designed to reabsorb it. At 1 amp, you're adding only a small amount of additional heat (and pre-98 Kats use batteries that take a higher charge rate - 1.1 amps on the pre-98 600's and 1.4 on the pre-98 750's). With a motorcycle float charger than will reduce the charge rate as the battery comes up to charge, much of the charging time will be well under 1 amp...

Now double that charge rate to 2 amps and you're adding heat in pretty fast, as well as gas pressure. After an hour, the battery will probably be very hot to the touch -- and you should disconnect the charger long enough for it cool back to room temp. If the sides start warping, it definitely got too hot and/or produced too much gas...

Double that rate again to 4 amps, and now you're really pouring in the power and building the heat, plus gas pressure. It's common for dealers and garages to use 4-amp chargers to fast charge brand new batteries -- but only for about 20 to 30 minutes at a pop (again, to keep the heat down), and their chargers normally reduce the charge rate as the battery gets closer to full (reducing the odds of cooking it off totally).

Crank that charge rate up to 10 amps (against a rated rated of 0.8 amps in your particular case), and you could easily be boiling the fluids in the battery in 5 minutes, because the heat that happens at the plate/acid interface can't even dissipate through the fluid evenly, much less out of the battery... and all that off-gas also wants to go somewhere...

What happens when you have a sealed container (like a factory-sealed AGM) and too much pressure? Think pressure-cooker... Something has to give. In this case, the casing is usually already weak from the heat and buldging outwards from the excess pressure of the gas... If everything works like it's designed to, a vent-panel on the battery will pop-off to vent out the stuff (spewing forth gas and some boiling acid), possibly even releasing violently. This panel is molded in, not hinged on -- and if it doesn't release, things are even worse and the whole thing could blow apart, spewing boiling acid under pressure everywhere.

Now, if that wasn't concern enough -- the off-gas is normally highly flammable hydrogen. And at 10 amps, you're building an aweful lot of it. Enough that if you have a pilot light (say a gas-powered water heater) close by, the hydrogen (once released) might also explode. Talk about turning a bad day (dead battery) into a horrible day (acid burns, burnt-down house).

Hmmmm... now how smart was that?

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[FloridaKat]

I thought max charge on a bike battery is 2A?

It varies by the battery type/size/model and whether we are talking a short charge or a continuous charge. For your particular bike (all 98+ Kats - 600 & 750), the max continuous charge rate is 0.8 amps, aka 800 milliamps. This is the temp that will not overheat the battery as long as the charging shuts down when the battery is truly full, and the rate at which your particular battery type (AGM battery) is designed to reabsorb the gases produced by the charging process.

Any charge rate higher than that means you are adding more heat to the battery than it will dissipate, and you have to take that into consideration. Plus you're adding gas into the case faster than it's designed to reabsorb it. At 1 amp, you're adding only a small amount of additional heat (and pre-98 Kats use batteries that take a higher charge rate - 1.1 amps on the pre-98 600's and 1.4 on the pre-98 750's). With a motorcycle float charger than will reduce the charge rate as the battery comes up to charge, much of the charging time will be well under 1 amp...

Now double that charge rate to 2 amps and you're adding heat in pretty fast, as well as gas pressure. After an hour, the battery will probably be very hot to the touch -- and you should disconnect the charger long enough for it cool back to room temp. If the sides start warping, it definitely got too hot and/or produced too much gas...

Double that rate again to 4 amps, and now you're really pouring in the power and building the heat, plus gas pressure. It's common for dealers and garages to use 4-amp chargers to fast charge brand new batteries -- but only for about 20 to 30 minutes at a pop (again, to keep the heat down), and their chargers normally reduce the charge rate as the battery gets closer to full (reducing the odds of cooking it off totally).

Crank that charge rate up to 10 amps (against a rated rated of 0.8 amps in your particular case), and you could easily be boiling the fluids in the battery in 5 minutes, because the heat that happens at the plate/acid interface can't even dissipate through the fluid evenly, much less out of the battery... and all that off-gas also wants to go somewhere...

What happens when you have a sealed container (like a factory-sealed AGM) and too much pressure? Think pressure-cooker... Something has to give. In this case, the casing is usually already weak from the heat and buldging outwards from the excess pressure of the gas... If everything works like it's designed to, a vent-panel on the battery will pop-off to vent out the stuff (spewing forth gas and some boiling acid), possibly even releasing violently. This panel is molded in, not hinged on -- and if it doesn't release, things are even worse and the whole thing could blow apart, spewing boiling acid under pressure everywhere.

Now, if that wasn't concern enough -- the off-gas is normally highly flammable hydrogen. And at 10 amps, you're building an aweful lot of it. Enough that if you have a pilot light (say a gas-powered water heater) close by, the hydrogen (once released) might also explode. Talk about turning a bad day (dead battery) into a horrible day (acid burns, burnt-down house).

Hmmmm... now how smart was that?

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

So, I set my charger to the minimum, 2 amps, and not keep the unit turned on for more than 1 hour, disconnect and let the battery cool (assuming it's warm/hot), then re-connect and repeat the process until the digital logic controller indicates a full charge. Should work right? Sounds like the key is to balance the amount heat transfer and gas pressure.

[MarkB]

MAx temp a battery should reach is 125F. Also a battery gasses the most when it is nearing fully charged.

Mark

[The CyberPoet]

So, I set my charger to the minimum, 2 amps, and not keep the unit turned on for more than 1 hour, disconnect and let the battery cool (assuming it's warm/hot), then re-connect and repeat the process until the digital logic controller indicates a full charge. Should work right? Sounds like the key is to balance the amount heat transfer and gas pressure.

I've done it that way in the past, using a kitchen timer set to 40 minutes to remind me to cycle it off. In the end, I just broke down and bought the right thing -- a small float charger that won't overcook the battery and cycles the power as needed itself. You can find generic ones dirt cheap ($7 - $15) if you look (HarborFreight, JCWhitney, etc), and even the better ones (Deltran BatteryTender series are highly recommended) are usually to be found for $30 - $40 depending on model.

MAx temp a battery should reach is 125F.

In an ideal world... In reality, I suspect my battery sees a higher temp than that in the bike when I'm riding at least half the year here in Florida... But it's a great guideline for charging!

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[md86]

I just charge mine with a trickle charger until it starts bubbling , monitoring the voltage with a meter . Once it starts bubbling , it's done , and it usually doesn't get terribly warm until about the time it starts to bubble . And the vent tube is there to make sure the pressure doesn't build up so the thing won't pop . As long as it's not blocked , you should be fine . Just remember the gas IS potentially explosive .

[grzielinski]

Great, Thanks All For the Info, I will Check the battery asap, i do not know if i make a difference, but my charger is a automatic charger, it will put out a max of 10 amps and decrease as the battery get to a full charge, i will check the battery, the other thing is that i have 12 volts or so at the battery, but have 1 -2 vols lower at the power wires on the coils. i can get spark out of the wires without the caps on, but as soon as i put the caps on i get no spark, is it the coils? or caps? or plugs? or something else, thanks again all for the help.

[The CyberPoet]

my charger is a automatic charger, it will put out a max of 10 amps and decrease as the battery get to a full charge,

That's a car charger and is not suitable for motorcycle batteries.

Get a new battery.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet